WHEN GAMING GOES BAD...I MEAN REALLY BAD!

DAVE SAID:

Ok, I'm willing to try it one more time...BUT

Jeff will have to pay like $500 for a new leg and buy a bunch of spells, but does he get new ones?

Ben and I will have hench men, but will we have to pay them and living costs? And we'll be up to 6 fate points.

Lots of minuses for me on this game...can't switch out weapons, cross bows are useless every other turn, etc.

I'll give it another try...only one.

Everybody good for 6pm next week?

We have to end at 10pm though.



BEN SAID:

GOOD MORNING ALL!
Thoughts;
- I like the game, don't love it, but I like it.
- It reminds me of the brutality of the Warhammer RPG. When you compare it to a default D&D world, the Warhammer is brutal expensive and less than heroic. I'm ok with that.
- I can't wait to have henchmen! One more step on the path for Loki Angerbrow (Yes Stevula I HAVE A NAME!) to world domination.
- I do agree with Dave on some points. The lack of flexibility with the weapon change in combat, even if it cost you a full turn to switch, is annoying. The crossbow thing I can understand, but with the proximity of opponents and the fact that we usually deal with swarms it does make the weapon obsolete in a dungeon crawl. Now all that being said, I think some House Rulin' by Steve could alieviate these issues. I'm not saying he needs to cowtoe to Dave or any of the rest of the group's desire to turn this into a game where we dominate, but giving us some options would help significantly. I must say I liked and apreciated the opportunity to puch some goblins to death and liked the way it worked out.
- I say we give it another go, and if Dave is that against it afterwards then we move on to another game. I'm also all 'bout a Battle Masters Campaign.
- Yes! I too MUST be done by 10pm next week, 'cause it's only 8:21am and I'm in rough shape. I have 39 minutes to get it together before dealing with a crap ton of people, some of which are just dumb, and some of which English is a second or even fourth language. Not to mention I LOATHE teaching this repetitive crap. Thus is life, if only it were more like Advanced Heroquest...
- On the side note, let me again invite Jeff, Steve, & Terry to D&D on 10/17/09 at 5pm. It's good times...



STEVE SAID:

I had no problems with the game. And I like the rule that heroes have to have their shit together before combat and may only change weapons during an exploration phase, not in the heat of combat.
The crossbow's certainly not obsolete dishing out 5 damage dice over a huge range. (And not having to make a Bravery Test) You just have to protect the crossbowman and it will be much easier to do now that you're able to get loads of henchmen.
Ben, if you have any Wardancer or Trollslayer figs please bring them.

And I like the fact that even a zombie cleaver can hack off a Wizard's leg and not just do the generic "3 points of damage."

The rules will stand as written. (YES SIR! - DAVE SAID THAT) You have to take the good with the bad. The dungeons are meant to be dangerous. They are dungeons after all. I gave each new party a free healing potion and the ability to load up the wizard.
I'm not changing any more rules. If you want to play a game where nobody dies I'm sure you can get a copy of Chutes and Ladders on Ebay.

I did find a exception to the rule where you can use monster's weapons. You can loot their missile weapons but because they are designed for Orcish hands and the like you get one less damage dice.

Here are links to the rules:
Main Rulebook: http://www.martsville.co.uk/images/AdvancedHeroquest/AHQ%20Contents/Rulebook.pdf
Expansion: http://www.martsville.co.uk/images/AdvancedHeroquest/AHQ%20Contents/Terror%20In%20The%20Dark.pdf

See ya next week!



JEFF SAID:

The difficulty of the game didn't bother me at all. I dislike walk-throughs as they get incredibly boring. And the fact that we had to use all our fate points and barely beat the quest-room says to me that the game is well balanced. So I found the degree of challenge to be pretty reasonable.

However something about the game irked me, and I'm not entirely sure what. It may have been the random layout and encounter system taking away from the joy I get out of the discovery process. To me it was a bit like listening to music being pumped out of a random note generator (the dice) instead of music written by some tormented baroque-era composer (the map designer) tormented by syphilis trying to take his pain out on the world through emotionally evocative musical retribution.

(I THOUGHT THIS WAS A GREAT WAY TO DESCRIBE IT - DAVE)

Are there quests with context/goals? That's the stuff I consciously ignore but I believe it adds a lot to the feel of a crawl/discovery game.

-Jeff



BEN SAID:

- Jeff this;
"To me it was a bit like listening to music being pumped out of a random note generator (the dice) instead of music written by some tormented baroque-era composer (the map designer) tormented by syphilis trying to take his pain out on the world through emotionally evocative musical retribution."
Was utterly brilliant and made me actually laugh loud enough that trainees took notice. I do agree with your summation though. It seemed like we went through a great deal of random nastiness for little reward. In addition having some greater context to the rhyme and reason for our excursions rather than simply "Revenge" would help a tad.



BEN SAID:

- I do like the idea of the heroes having thier collective "shit together" prior to combat, but the inability to switch on the fly is simply unrealistic. I think what you came up with; fisticuffs works brilliantly.
- Obsolete is a poor word choice on my part. It's a"dicey", no pun intended, prospect at best though. With the size of encounter space and the amount of enemies it becomes a liability in combat rather than a boon. Its not like you can gain higher ground and sniper enemies, you are in the thick of it, and once they get in your face your in trouble.
- I look forward to bossing around MINIONS!
- As for Wardancers & Trollslayers I'll see what I can find.
- I LOVE, the idea of specific damage and the flavor of what it is. It's one of my favorite parts of Warhammer in general.
- It is your game, so your call is final.
- I don't think it's that people want to play a "Chutes & Ladders" game, but much like Warhammer Fantasy RPG, there is a tendency for the game to feel like your characters are unheroic. Meaning they are just poor schlubs who are in a meat grinder of death. Generally speaking, in a fantasy setting players like to feel like they are more than average, like they are heroes. Playing a game that makes me feel like "Joe Blow" in a fantasy setting does nothing for me, I'm "Joe Blow" enough in real life, I like to feel special. Make me feel special Steve...(I kid, I kid)
- Now I will agree that letting us set up Jeff with spell components and giving all the new players healing potions help tremendously. But I think you would have to aquiesce that the body count in a game like this can get "redunkulous"...
- I like the looting of weapons thing, that's f'n cool.
- Thanks for the links!



DAVE SAID:

That f@cking reward at the end was Recondo!
I did all that for f@cking Rat poison that I could buy at the beginning of the adventure?

F@ck that!!!



JEFF SAID:

Ponce Retardo is a prissy little dwarf-bitch!



BEN SAID:

Jeff FTW!



DAVE SAID:

FTW? meaning?

By the way, I see nothing saying you have to choose a weapon before combat



BEN SAID:

For The Win.

I haven't read the rules because I've been stuck teaching slack-jawed troglodytes how to save one another.


DAVE SAID:

I think we should all read or skim the rules, because we missed that we can close doors and lock out creatures...they can only open doors if they have a sentry



BEN SAID:

Wow, that information might have come in handy.
Since I'm lazy I'll rely on your superior gaming mind to read them.


BEN ALSO SAID:

Dave Richardson = Rules Afficiando

You knowing the rules can only help us as a group oh fearless leader.


THEN STEVE SAID:

Umm......Please read the rules CAREFULLY.

1)The rules for monsters in pursuit and allowing monsters open doors in pursuit are clearly laid out on page 18 of the main rulebook.
2)We have been rolling for MMIs. We don't always roll for monsters it slows the game down to roll for every monster. We do roll for the few monsters (like a Troll) that you do encounter that can have MMIs.
As you can see by the chart, lowly Goblins and Orcs aren't going to be walking around with Excalibur (or any MMI) And the Monsters CAN use their MMIs on the Heroes. IF you want, I can be sure to include
additional powerful monsters that are sure to have MMIs!
3) The rule for switching weapons is on page 37 of the rules (AND part of the packet I hand out to each player each session)
4) Page 37 of the expansion lays out the rules for ALL chests whether in Lairs or Quest Rooms..

Maybe we should think about a different game next week.


AND BEN SAID:

I hate it when Mommy & Daddy fight...*sigh*
Seriously, it's just a game. If it's not going to be fun, or if it's going to be so rigid that it feels like work then lets play something else. Anything else, except Robo-Rally.



TO WHICH STEVE SAID:

Agreed. I have no desire to play Advanced Heroquest next week, especially after going over the rules for Henchmen. I am sure somebody's going to want to change those rules too.
I guess I am tired of changing every rule just because it doesn't suit somebody.

Ben, I have an idea for a Robo-Rally campaign!


FINALLY TERRY SAID:

Robo-WTF-hell-game that is one I will pass on the rest of my life..................................



BEN SAID:

If the Robo-Rally campaign involves you guys lining up to take turns kicking me square between my legs then that is preferrable to actually sitting at a table and playing that damnable game again.
I would rather do my own dental worker with a rusty pair of pliars, a liter of the Fighting Cock, and some fishing line.


BEN SAID:

My thoughts;
- Small world looks interesting, somewhat cheap, and fun.
- Battlelore Creatures seems like a high price for very little. Sure it's extra huge monsters, but as we all know you aren't even guarenteed to even get one of those in your force.
- Battlelore Dragons, much like Creatures seems pricey for 3 minis. Not to mention at least with Creatures we have a precedence of how we think they'll work, with the write up for Dragons I am unsure of their intentions.
- Battlelore Heroes sounds TITS! Seriously, out of the three this one actually interests me. But I like games that allow you to customize, upgrade, and improve. Now if only it had a sub-game of dungeon crawling it would be a true campaign world.


TERRY SAID:

Hey there is this game called Advanced D&D I believe Steve has it.....



AND FINALLY DAVE SAID:

I didn't read the rules for hench-men, but I believe they would have been something like this:

You can only move your hench-men if he's diagonal to two other heroes and two monsters.

You can only have your hench-men fire ranged weapons if he's directly behind another friendly player who is also directly behind another friendly player.

Hench-men are allowed to carry five times the gold a hero can, but he won't ever give it to you.

Hench-men can't fight first, or last, or in between hero attacks.

Hench-men are only allowed one arrow...if it breaks, oh well!

Hench-men can move through doors, but only after they've dropped to -13 hit points, used a fate point to spring back to life, dropped to 1 hit point AND announced what weapon they are using in the seventh battle!

Hench-men can only use one weapon at a time, unless it's a two handed weapon, then they may use three and switch them out every half turn to do double attacks, unless they are going against a Troll, then they may only use one weapon -"the Runesword"- which they have to borrow from the wizard three exploration phases prior to the current battle (giving an I.O.U. of course...which will not be paid) and start the battle the furthest away from said Troll. IF the hench-man isn't the furthest away, he may not use the Rune Sword, but can tempt the Troll with some Earls Cheese Puffs at a -2 to tempt.

Lucky for us that we could have only each taken out 250 or the 269 gold we each got. 500 would have been to get Jeff his leg back, 250 would be to hire a hench-dork and then there is "living expenses"

LIVING EXPENSES? I have those in real life! Is this a dungeon crawl or King Maker?

side note: I would be all for playing a game like King Maker, Blood Royale or Warrior Knights where all that stuff is part of the game and makes it (probably) cool.

Normally I am all about following rules, and adding a house rule or two to make games fun or more playable (especially since the house rule is for everyone, not 4 out of 5 players), but this game is ridiculous!

Let it fly!


IS THIS THE END? PROBABLY NOT, BUT IT'S FUNNY THAT WE JUST WANTED TO HAVE FUN PLAYING A GAME.

LUCKY THAT JEFF'S FRIEND JASON(?) DIDN'T COME TO THIS GAME SESSION...HE WOULD HAVE NEVER COME BACK AGAIN.